First Crack at Modelling Photoreal People

[KPaetow]

Hi Folks,

This is my first attempt at modelling a person. It's based it on a single still as reference, so as you might imagine there's a certain amount of guesswork involved. I'm still tweaking it, but I figure I'm getting to the point where I can start the UV mapping and texturing soon.

I'd like to get your C&C on any issues you might see right up front, before I go further.

My objective is to eventually get into the position where I can go from photo reference to photoreal renders, rigged for animation. Oh, man, still quite a road ahead of me!

[farhaad_yousefi]

..fine job ..but you should put wire frame for more criticisms ;)
..and know this ..in main 3d packages like xsi (or maya - max and huddini ) there are limits for this kind of realism ..there is a place where you should take your objet to "z-brush" or mudbux or any other 3d paint package to add details...
..i am locking forward to see your results.,:sailor:

[KPaetow]

Yeah, I was wondering if I was going too far off the deep end in terms of details within XSI. I don't have ZBrush, but have been considering it. I figured for now I'd try to push things in terms of modelling within XSI, then add the super-fine detail with hand-painted and/or photo-derived texturemaps.

I'll get a wireframe up shortly.

[KPaetow]

Here's the wireframe. It's a 2nd-level subD with approx 79K triangles. The base mesh is just under 5K.

Thanks for your input, Farhaad! Appreciated!

[Photon]

Hi KPaetow.

For me your topology face have little mistakes in ...

(5 Quads forming Pentagon of Quads) see the picture

Sorry for painting in your wire.

when you use this topology for rigging face ( shapes )
and normal map, Displacement map, cavity map. SSS material.

U can see a little irregularity in form of shadow.

[KPaetow]

Thanks Photon! No problem for painting on the wireframe...

[Photon]

For me your topology face have little mistakes in ...

(5 Quads forming Pentagon of Quads) see the picture




Sorry I made a mistake in your topology. crossing the loops Orbicularis oculi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbicularis_oculi), Orbicularis oris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbicularis_oris), Nasalis muscle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasalis_muscle) and Risorius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risorius).

U topology is Good.


Do u create the mesh face Quad by Quad or Box Modeling???

[KPaetow]

Truthfully, I started the modelling on this particular piece with a base mesh from a CD. The original was of a woman, which I reshaped to make what you see here. (Credit: "Creative Essence: The Face" by Ballistic Publishing, www.ballisticpublishing.com/books/essence/face/ (http://www.ballisticpublishing.com/books/essence/face/))

In this case I "cheated" in the sense that I didn't start the mesh from scratch. This was initially intended as a test to see how far I could get to match a single reference photo of a man, which isn't much to work with. So, I started with a pre-made mesh to get the basic head shape already in 3D, then I would go from there.

The mesh you see is heavily modified from the original. Especially the ears. Those are my own doing, from separate reference. So I guess it's not "cheating" anymore, per se. :rolleyes:

Had I have done this "the real way," from scratch, and had I had a proper set of reference, I would have started by creating the base mesh using the quad-by-quad method. I'm not sure I like the box approach, personally.

I can definitely say that this project is an excellent learning experience for me. Your previous post prompted me to research the "right" way to model heads (make sure all polys are quads, use edge loops, etc.) It turns out the base mesh I started with had these features, lucky for me. BUT, at least I know about these now!

I had also wondered about having five quads in a pentagon as you pointed out; it seems that these are valid according to the places I checked -- maybe even unavoidable -- when connecting different edge loop "patches" together.

I was also worrying about the effects the topology will have when I get to texturing. I don't want to get to texturing only to find out my topology is stretching the textures in oddball ways.

Thanks also for the links to the muscle groups on Wikipedia! I definitely need to learn anatomy.

Still have some work to do... The eyes, for one. Need to redo the eyeballs, rework the lids a bit, and add lacrimal canaliculi and tearlines.

[MichaelD]

Looks sweet, I thought the shadow around the temple area looked realistic tho, i shall take another look. I wouldnt say to use zbrush, i mean it would be really sweet if you could, but looking back at awesome models before zb and mb came out, the details were all done in the main apps. Since you dont have zb, maybe giving this a try could be good, do some basic bump details then leave the rest to bump maps and or normal maps using some of the free software out there.


Cant wait for the results :)

[KPaetow]

Thanks MichaelD! Yeah, I've been looking at ZB for a while now. It looks to be much more intuitive than tweaking vertices. Probably faster too. And you get your bump/normal maps in the process, as well. I think one can also paint directly on the model, which could be a huge timesaver. I can't afford it now, but I think it would be well worth getting. A lot of the work I've seen done by ZB artists in the gallery is just jaw-dropping. Gorgeous stuff.

My plan was to get as much of the form, or large scale detail, into the model itself (large creases, furrows, dimples, etc.), at the expense of some additional geometry, and leave the fine detail to the bump map (skin texture, pores, fine wrinkes & creases.)

I'm working on a number of maps which I've plugged into the Fast SS Skin shader. I've run against two issues though. The first is that my UV layout isn't good: I have a number of islands instead of one big one, and thus have seams in too many places. The other is that I started with hand-painted maps. I'm getting the feeling I won't be able to achieve photorealism unless create maps from photos.

So I guess it's back to the drawing board! Or, in this case, back to UV layout. Oh, it hurts to be noob. :)

[MichaelD]

Hey. No problems. Yes, ZB is awesome. You may be able to get the demo and try it. Not sure its limitations tho. Dont know if it will let you import/export/normal map/disp map creation. You can paint directly onto the models which is cool. Also could look at Mudbox 2009. Seems like it will be a good competitor.

You could do it that way. I mean how else did they do it when ZB and MB weren't around :S hehe.

I dont have much exp with uvlayouts. Im actually just trying it out myself. haha. Have got somethings working the way i think they should, but until i texture it im not too sure. Check out aaron sims book on XSI 4, Character creation, and also some Digital Tutors stuff. They have a UV layout dvd. The help docs seem to be sweet also. Im not sure about handpainting. Unless your a pro and can paint realistic humans, it may be difficult to get it looking right. Photos may be a better option. Which is the way I would go as well.

Yes I know that noob feeling.

[Leo]

Hey KPaetow,

Great job so far! As for the UV Mapping, from one noob to another, you might want to check out Kim Aldis' incredible "RoadKill for XSI: One Click UV Unwrapping (http://www.kim-aldis.co.uk/drupal-6.1/node/6)".

Good Luck,

Leo.

[KPaetow]

Thanks for the pointers, MichaelD and Leo! I'll check those out.

I've restarted my UV layout and am much more happy with it. It's now a single island, which is probably better. Just need to finish unwrapping the right ear, then tweak the layout to work out any stretching issues.