Softimage Announces XSI 7 with ICE

[Leonard]

http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/about/imgs/hoodie_ice.jpg (http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/)

Hi guys,

It's a big day. We're announcing XSI 7.

XSI 7 introduces ICE (Interactive Creative Environment), a groundbreaking technology that transforms XSI from just another 3D product into a powerful and flexible open platform.

ICE - New in XSI 7
ICE (Interactive Creative Environment) is an open, scalable platform that allows anyone to extend the capabilities of XSI quickly and intuitively using a node-based dataflow diagram. This paradigm means that 3D artists can create complex 3D effects and tools extremely quickly without writing code. Powering ICE is a high performance parallel processing engine that takes advantage of multi-core workstations – a first for a general 3D architecture – giving users utmost performance and scalability. The result is a giant leap forward in production efficiency and consistency, enabling higher production standards.

http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/ice/imgs/Mulcor_Burning_Forest_s.jpg

The ICE environment – XSI functionality is displayed using a node-based dataflow diagram. Each node has specific capabilities. Users connect nodes to create a desired effect. A group of nodes can be packaged together into a “compound”, which is displayed as a single node. As a result, highly complex tools can be deployed and re-used without writing code.


More New Features



Support for mental ray v.3.6 with new rendering ‘stand-ins’ that will allow users to offload objects along with rigged and animated characters to the disk until render time, resulting in light-weight scene assembly for much larger rendered scenes, and optimized controls for final gathering and global illumination
Delta II a major update to the lightweight referencing system in SOFTIMAGE|XSI, with enhanced support for clusters and cluster properties, including materials, textures and UVs
RTS III -- a new Real-Time Shading architecture that will allow fragment and vertex shaders to exist in one node, and will be programmable and controllable from any ICE attribute
And more... (http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/new_features/)

XSI 7 will ship this quarter (before 30 September 2008).

>> SOFTIMAGE|XSI 7 << (http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/)



XSI Foundation Discontinued as a Standalone Product

Another announcement -- Softimage is discontinuing XSI Foundation as a standalone product.
Here is a notice to XSI Foundation users (http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/foundation/)

Until 30 September 2008, all XSI Foundation customers (including version 4.x, 5.x and 6.x customers) are eligible to upgrade to XSI 7 at the lowest prices ever offered. Please contact your Softimage reseller (http://www.softimage.com/buy/) or Softimage Sales for pricing and details.


.

[KPaetow]

Woohoo!!! :biggrin: Time to check out the feature list! Now for the straight goods on ICE!

[yayas]

whoa..
Busy reading the new features...
out of curiosity, is that Tim Borgmann stuff that popping out from Hoodie's hand?

[KPaetow]

Oh man, I am stunned.

The new abilities with particles alone are worth it. The ICE vignette showing flames dancing, smoke swirling (fluid dynamics?) and on and on... But it doesn't stop there.

Just the whole concept of a node-based workflow is very tantalizing. And it's multi-threaded, too. Mmmm, I can just feel my quad core coming to life, doing what it was destined to do! And they included a debugger and a profiler too (performance analyzer) to help resolve issues and optimize node graph execution. Well, that's just kick-ass!

I can't wait to get my hands on this!

[Sarford]

Outch, my brain hurts from all the possibilities, time to get an ice-pack

[NeilV]

Just perfect.....so those who can't afford a $2,000 program, or just may not need the features it offers will be stuck in the cold if they want to upgrade in the future?

Why is SoftImage cutting out Foundation? It's perfect for basic users like myself.

Anyone know how much the, 'probably limited time upgrade price offer', to the next level up will be when upgrading to version 7?

I migrated from Animation Master (way too many limitations and not powerfull), too XSI SoftImage in 2006. I've been teaching myself modelling skills and retraining myself in the new program. I'm finally ready to start some animation...but only basic stuff... If it where not for Foundation, I wouldn't have been able to start anew at all. And one of the reasons I went with XSI, is because I could not afford the price of a 3D Max software piece..


Thanks
Neil

[Faizol]

now that XSI7 has been announced, perhaps some of the beta testers would like to spill more beans?
Anyone on the new GI solution rendering time against other renderers (like vray)? Anything stands out on the new FG? How fast is it the whole body muscle system using ICE? 64bit Linux (oo please.... and more info on the platform supported as well...)?

Any thing about old scenes conversion to version 7?

what about the new SDK? Anything major if to run old plugins on the new version 7?

whoa man.. i'm just about to start on a new project and this is just about the right time.

what about version 7 performance on ATI cards (both Windows and Linux)? ATI has good drivers now on both platforms. Any particular glitch like the previous versions of XSI and ATI drivers?

whoa... i cant remember what more to ask... hehehe.. i guess i'll ask more after getting some more info.

[SheepFactory]

Just perfect.....so those who can't afford a $2,000 program, or just may not need the features it offers will be stuck in the cold if they want to upgrade in the future?

Why is SoftImage cutting out Foundation? It's perfect for basic users like myself.

Anyone know how much the, 'probably limited time upgrade price offer', to the next level up will be when upgrading to version 7?

I migrated from Animation Master (way too many limitations and not powerfull), too XSI SoftImage in 2006. I've been teaching myself modelling skills and retraining myself in the new program. I'm finally ready to start some animation...but only basic stuff... If it where not for Foundation, I wouldn't have been able to start anew at all. And one of the reasons I went with XSI, is because I could not afford the price of a 3D Max software piece..


Thanks
Neil


If you are learning animation and doing it as a hobby why do you need the latest version of a software? You can always use the learning edition too if you need the latest version.

My guess is that there was no way to include the ICE core changes in foundation and still offer it at that price point. I had bought the last two versions of foundation and thought it was an amazing value and great incentive to newcomers but after watching the ICE videos I can honestly see why it is dropped.

Getting this kind of creative power for $3k was simply unthinkable just a couple years ago. Anyone who makes money from 3d really doesn't have any grounds to complain about XSI's price considering what you get.

[NeilV]

That's just the thing, I'm no where NEAR the skill level where I can begin to make money off of it. It's taken me two years of on and off learning just to get to the point where I feel that my models are good enough for animation purposes. I haven't even begun to touch sknning, animation deforming, etc. So I really couldn't justify a price point of 2K plus for it.


If people want to make money off a basic animation, foundation is perfect...if memory serves, it's against the liscence to sell work made with the Student Teacher edition, and most people do have an honor system ;0)....

If that's not part of the license agreement, than student teacher edition here Icome in the future ;)

[Zac-Donald]

ITS COMING OUT BEFORE MY BIRTHDAY :biggrin:
I wanna get the student version... I could never sell my work... I suck too much :-P
I'm excited to mess with it

[Firebird]

"Why is SoftImage cutting out Foundation? It's perfect for basic users like myself."I think thats the reason for the new offer from FND to ESS

Instead of buying XSI FND about 500 € you buy XSI ESS 7 around 690 € (special offer if u own FND) Then u have a full 64 bit multi threadet packed wich u can work faster better and with more features u ever had befor.
So when u did all your jobs with FND 5 for the last years then u will be able to use XSI ESS 7 even longer without beeing to much behind with technologie

Edit: i have to say im not a reseller ... so the price is something i read about.
Dont take it as fully accurate

[tomkirbygreen]

OK, so as a user of XSI Foundation 6.02 (which I bought in March of 2008) does anyone know the price in UK pounds for the upgrade to XSI Essentials 7?

How do we go about getting the upgrade? Do we get a boxed copy or just a download? If the later does that mean we won't get 'The Artists Guide to XSI' training with our Foundation 6 to Essentials 7 upgrade?

Answers. Answers! :-)

[updated]

Just got an email from Soft' and it's £495 ex VAT to go from Foundation 6.02 to Essentials 7 and about £250 more if you want 1 years maintenance. I'm 'just' a home user so I can't justify the maintenance option so looks like I'll have to find the £500+ over the next month or so. Can't wait to get my paws on '7 :-)

[giant551]

Well it will be very interesting to see the new features when it comes available. Its a real shame for anyone who isn't a charactor animator or FX artist as there seems to be nothing for the arch viz market or engineering/Visualisation.

I think todays anouncement will have the makers of Modo and C4d rubbing their hands together as i suspect a most foundation users will eventually switch over to another package. The offer to upgrade is very generous but i suspect will not be taken up by the majority of foundation users as most of us simply don't use or need the character features.

I know most ess / advanced users look down thier noses at foundation dismissing it as a "hobby" toy but that simply is not true. It is the best and most cost effective solution to a multitude of none charactor work.

Also it will be very interesting to see how the studio's who are using XSI react to the changes as i suspect most of them only use a handful of ess / adv licences for their riggers and animators. So it will be a big hike in licence money for them in the future for their modelers and texture artists who don't need none of the new features.

Its a very brave move i think with the current worldwide economic slowdown. So it will be interesting to see how it pans out going head to head with Maya Max and Houdini.

[NeilV]

agreed on wanting to know the US price for 6.02 foundation users.... 650 for a full featured program isn't a bad deal, so long as it sticks around a while for me to raise that much ;)

edit - giant.....Is there a full spec sheet showing the changes for character rigging and animation? I'm at work so don't totally have the time to go searching for one ;o)... As I stated, I'm just starting to get into character rigging, and if there are any improvements that make it easier, it might just be worth it ...

[ThE_JacO]

Well it will be very interesting to see the new features when it comes available. Its a real shame for anyone who isn't a charactor animator or FX artist as there seems to be nothing for the arch viz market or engineering/Visualisation.
You gotta be kidding me :)
In first place ICE IS NOT an effects thingy, it's a complete game change and a new core.
Secondly new MRay alone, especially for arch-viz, is plenty reason to upgrade.

I think todays anouncement will have the makers of Modo and C4d rubbing their hands together as i suspect a most foundation users will eventually switch over to another package. The offer to upgrade is very generous but i suspect will not be taken up by the majority of foundation users as most of us simply don't use or need the character features.
FND had no maintenance path. So you get offered the upgrade of version AND features for slightly more than you would have had to pay to get a new version of FND and you'd pass on it?
I understand the average broke person who's short on money right now, but if you could afford upgrading FND and aren't grabbing the chance to upgrade to ESS for the promo price than there's something seriously wrong :)

I know most ess / advanced users look down thier noses at foundation dismissing it as a "hobby" toy but that simply is not true. It is the best and most cost effective solution to a multitude of none charactor work.
It was a terrific version, but Soft always said it was a market wedge. As for users of other versions looking down to FND users, that's unfounded sorry.
I wouldn't look down to an EDU user if he had the skills, why would I care about what version of a software somebody uses?

Also it will be very interesting to see how the studio's who are using XSI react to the changes as i suspect most of them only use a handful of ess / adv licences for their riggers and animators. So it will be a big hike in licence money for them in the future for their modelers and texture artists who don't need none of the new features.
I know of no studio of a certain size using FND to be honest.
It lacks the networking and workgroup capabilities needed to run anything larger than a single digit number of users.

Its a very brave move i think with the current worldwide economic slowdown. So it will be interesting to see how it pans out going head to head with Maya Max and Houdini.
For once a company paid through their nose to offer innovation and marketed it competitively.
Max, Maya (unlimited, complete hardly compares in features even to essentials after 6.5) and houdini all cost between 1.5 and 8 times more :)

I sincerely think there's reason for celebration from an idealistic standpoint today.
I feel sorry for those who could only afford foundation and won't be able to enter the upgrade path on time if they have financial difficulties, but in every other regard Soft has a company for once moved like an idealistic company with some purpose, and they have my support for that.

[toma]

(...) Its a real shame for anyone who isn't a charactor animator or FX artist as there seems to be nothing for the arch viz market or engineering/Visualisation.
ICE will be perfect ! think about all the repetitive tasks arch viz implies (select,dice,extrude,inset,srink selection,invert,bevel again etc...)
(...) very generous but i suspect will not be taken up by the majority of foundation users as most of us simply don't use or need the character features.
yes, but realtime deformations in the "modeling process" ! nice ! ( natural environnements and non planar locations = roads dynamically skrinked to a ground object...)
So it will be interesting to see how it pans out going head to head with ... and Houdini. XsiosX ;)

[tomkirbygreen]

Having had time to think this over I have to say I think £500 to upgrade from Foundation to Essentials is a complete bargain. As others have pointed out there's a lot of new good stuff in 7, not least ICE. Serious kudos to Soft' for such bold engineering. I think the fact that they can deliver such dramatic changes in v7 says a heck of a lot about the quality of their software engineering and bodes extremely well for even better things to emerge from the XSI source base in the future. OK so I'll have to cut out Starbucks coffee's for a couple of months but short of selling a kidney I'm definately taking advantage of the Foundation 6 => Essentials 7 upgrade offer! :)

[NeilV]

I contacted a sales rep on the official website about the price upgrade in us dollars, but if it's a full feature upgrade (IE no need to keep old serial numbers around, reg info, etc), it'll be worth around $500 us....

I WAS going to by Sony Vegas Pro with that, but since this is a limited time offer, I guess I'm gonna have to act soon ;o)... Is there a video tutorial anywhere yet that actually SHOWS these new features in action rather than just text? Sometimes video helps make a better sale ;)

[Zac-Donald]

check the main site

[origin]

Is there a list of all changes made since xsi 6.5 ?

Are there any new modelling tools ?

Any UV pelting tool (I heard there would be Unfold 3d integrated into xsi7) ?

[mi_echo_log.txt]

(IE no need to keep old serial numbers around, reg info, etc), it'll be worth around $500 us....

No more Registration codes for V7
Licensing has improved as well :)

[Werner]

anything new on UV unwrapping in XSI 7?

[schuubars]

No more Registration codes for V7
Licensing has improved as well :)


You mean i can now throw my dongle out of the window too? ;D j/k.

[mi_echo_log.txt]

You mean i can now throw my dongle out of the window too? ;D j/k.

If it works. I would not change it. But if you have systematic problems there will be options in the future.

[NeilV]

No more Registration codes for V7
Licensing has improved as well :)

Hmm, OK... I'll bite.. how does it work now?

Current method...

Install XSI, Enter in Email, Username, Code. Click done, license now active. Click OK, boom, done. How can that be improved? :) The only problem I had is that the license server would mysteriously stop working

[schuubars]

If it works. I would not change it. But if you have systematic problems there will be options in the future.

Nah, was more ment as a joke, the dongle is still working, but he is to big in size, sometimes...but thanks good to know. ;)

[giant551]

You gotta be kidding me :)
In first place ICE IS NOT an effects thingy, it's a complete game change and a new core.
Secondly new MRay alone, especially for arch-viz, is plenty reason to upgrade.


FND had no maintenance path. So you get offered the upgrade of version AND features for slightly more than you would have had to pay to get a new version of FND and you'd pass on it?
I understand the average broke person who's short on money right now, but if you could afford upgrading FND and aren't grabbing the chance to upgrade to ESS for the promo price than there's something seriously wrong :)


It was a terrific version, but Soft always said it was a market wedge. As for users of other versions looking down to FND users, that's unfounded sorry.
I wouldn't look down to an EDU user if he had the skills, why would I care about what version of a software somebody uses?


I know of no studio of a certain size using FND to be honest.
It lacks the networking and workgroup capabilities needed to run anything larger than a single digit number of users.


For once a company paid through their nose to offer innovation and marketed it competitively.
Max, Maya (unlimited, complete hardly compares in features even to essentials after 6.5) and houdini all cost between 1.5 and 8 times more :)

I sincerely think there's reason for celebration from an idealistic standpoint today.
I feel sorry for those who could only afford foundation and won't be able to enter the upgrade path on time if they have financial difficulties, but in every other regard Soft has a company for once moved like an idealistic company with some purpose, and they have my support for that.

Don't get me wrong i so hope its reason for celebration also. It was always going to be a painfull experience losing foundation but i think deep down most people knew it was coming. Your probably right and i'll have a go with it and it will be worth every penny i don't doubt that.

[mi_echo_log.txt]

Hmm, OK... I'll bite.. how does it work now?

Current method...

Install XSI, Enter in Email, Username, Code. Click done, license now active. Click OK, boom, done. How can that be improved? :) The only problem I had is that the license server would mysteriously stop working

At its core we are still dealing with SPM. However the interface has been streamlined and simplified. You now only need enter your Username/Email and Password. Foundation users will not see a huge difference in terms of process, however this has greatly reduced the complexity for licensing of other products.

Where possible error messages have been demystified, so it will help in debugging those mysterious server failures; though in those cases the panic button will ensure that you are up and running while support investigates the cause of a server failure.

[antiplayer]

just got a maintenance quote for Xsi Ess 6.5 to Ess 7, it'll be $799 for yrs maintenance :D .. (http://www.softimage.com/products/maintenance/)

[septopus]

ice... its almost orgasmic:001_icon16:

[Gman]

The new version looks very very intresting! (I'm a bit blown away)

Will version 7 be multithreaded on win XP 32 bit? Or will I need to upgrade to XP 64 bit or Vista? What would the best option be?

G

[ThE_JacO]

The threading is equally efficient on all platforms.
32 or 64bit only makes a practical difference in terms of memory addressed.

[kim aldis]

Just perfect.....so those who can't afford a $2,000 program, or just may not need the features it offers will be stuck in the cold if they want to upgrade in the future?

By the same argument that would mean I'll be stuck out in the cold in the future if I want to upgrade my ford to a $250,000 Ferrari.

I've never understood why the software industry is the only industry who's users expect they price according to what their customers think they can afford rather than what it costs to manufacture the product.

[scottsch]

Softimage definitely knows how to do a software upgrade! I can't think of any other product that is improved as well as XSI is from version to version.

The demise of Foundation is sad, as new users will be less inclined to try XSI and see why it is so good, but really... this product is worth a lot more than $500. A LOT more, honestly. Foundation was a great thing for me, but I am also ready to move up and get some of the referencing capabilities.

Can't wait to upgrade to Essentials. :sorcerer:

Man, this is exciting.

[scottsch]

I've never understood why the software industry is the only industry who's users expect they price according to what their customers think they can afford rather than what it costs to manufacture the product.

The software industry is a little odd in that it requires a userbase and an upgrade cycle to survive, which puts pressure on companies to sell at lower prices to establish a userbase. I'm sure that Foundation served its purpose of bringing many more users to XSI. Alias was doing the same thing about 3 years ago with the pricing of Maya Complete which forced Softimage to create a similar pricing structure ($2000 for the low end package).

[NeilV]

So, anyone hear what the US upgrade price is for foundation users?

[lokm]

wait a sec, why are they offering discount for existing Foundation users only? and nothing for potential user?
The discontinuity of Foundation line are screwing up the potential Foundation buyers and not existing users. Foundation users never have any upgrade option. It was always a one time purchase deal.

[Sarford]

wait a sec, why are they offering discount for existing Foundation users only? and nothing for potential user?

Ofcourse not, if they'd do THAT everybody would be a potential Foundation user, I know I would...

[lokm]

I meant they can earn more profits by charging a lower price to the group with a more elastic demand... like price discrimination... sorry... too much business studies these days.
It's like dropping all economy seats after upgrading an airplane.
Or making all economy seats costing as much as business seats just because they decided to install their new TV for everyone.

[scottsch]

I think if someone hasn't bought XSI FND up until now, then they probably weren't ever going to buy it.

The pricing is only one small issue here... I hope that's not everyone's only concern, because sometimes if you want the best you just have to fork it over. It is worth it for XSI. I don't think people are remembering how painful SubD modeling was in Maya 5, or how difficult it used to be to use mental ray's physically accurate shaders with Maya. I don't want to sound like an evangelist, but XSI has solved a lot of problems for me and allows me to focus on creative work instead of figuring out the software itself. If other potential semi-professional users haven't figured out how XSI can improve their workday.... "oh well" for them, I have little sympathy.

Did anyone watch the videos on ICE? (http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/ice/default.aspx)

The technology upgrade is crazy. I knew the Softimage development team was really good, but come on - this is way, way beyond what I was expecting the new particle system to be. I have a lot of respect for the dev team, and also support people, good job guys... (understatement of the year). Other companies upgrades would have consisted of renaming PType to "Particle Widget Master" and calling it a day.

[Zac-Donald]

I think if someone hasn't bought XSI FND up until now, then they probably weren't ever going to buy it.

What about the kids who are just learning 3D software in general *cough me* I was planning on getting foundation once I was actually good enough to make some cash off my work. $3,000 is a big chuck of change for a gonna be student.

[BenR]

Yeah, Foundation is what brought me to XSI in the first place, though I've upgraded since then. I am excited by the new features but I have some concerns about XSI attracting new users.

Oh, and I'm not saying that just because I won't be selling any copies of BHairy anymore :smile: (it's slowed to a trickle anyway).

[Leefmc]

So has anyone seen a price for USA users with FND to upgrade to XSI 7 ESS? When will we be able to Upgrade?

And has a release date been made public for XSI 7? Also, anyone know if XSI 7 will come for Linux?

Oh so many questions..

*edit*
Heck, in the meantime i'd like to try out XSI 6.5 on Linux. Since i switched to Linux i have yet to use XSI on Linux, so im not even sure how stable it is heh, and it seems the XSI 6.5 Trial page does not offer a Linux download (yet they talk about the linux license)

[farhaad_yousefi]

..............yeeeeeeeeeeeee..!!! it's my birth day today..truly...and this is yet best surprise eveeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrr.....!!!!!:clap:

[Nakary]

AWESOME !!! yes, no doubts about it...

Does anybody know where can I get some wallpapers on this??
Also, I cant find Softimage apparel anywhere neither.. :(

best.

[Xero]

This is both good and bad news for me. After saving for a couple of months I recently switched for 3DS Max to XSI Foundation. I barely had time to get comfortable with it yet and now it's being discontinued.:( I was planning to upgrade to Ess. sometime in the future and this actually makes it easier but at the same time I'm kinda being force to upgrade to Ess. now (when I'm broke :p) because their won't be any new updates coming to Fnd.

[farhaad_yousefi]

no news from "cat" and "xsi.7"..?!?!?!!?????????????? :nono:

[Jack Winge]

This sure is bittersweet news for me. I had finally decided to leave Maya because of the high initial costs and more so their local licensing policy (a Maya licence is invalid outside of the country that it's bought in and I move around a bit). After testing just about every other alternative I was very happy discovering XSI. Aside from having to wear X-ray glasses to read the murky interface and running boot-camp, XSI really impresses me and I was looking forward to buying Foundation in a couple of weeks and upgrading to Essentials as soon as I could afford. With this news I'm back to square one, Maya PLE. On second thought, it's square zero, as everything you do in Maya PLE stays in Maya PLE. Like, forever.

Maya and now XSI is apparently not for personal use. That's ok, if it's a Ferrari then it's a Ferrari. I was just so happy about Foundation as it would have allowed me to step up in my own pace, maybe even making a few bucks to pay for investing in Essentials/Advanced. Anyhoo, XSI 7 seems great! I'm still searching for the button "Make the interface readable" but maybe it's in there somewhere and everything else seems like a really cool upgrade. I'm looking forward to trying it in 2012.

Cheers

[aberek]

no news from "cat" and "xsi.7"..?!?!?!!?????????????? :nono:

Farhaad,
Don't fret just yet. While CAT is not in XSI...yet. Phillip (CAT creator/most awesome programmer) has been hard at work coding ICE. So....with that in mind i can see a whole new world opening up for us animators and hopefully CAT will make it's appearance soon. I already asked the question from the dev guys and they had no response on when we would see something but i will keep my fingers crossed for next release. Till then enjoy ICE it has been a wild beta ride but well worth it. ICE is a thing of beauty to see in action and pretty much whatever you can think of, you can do in ICE. Even with a limited knowledge of the nodes you can create some really wicked effects! I'll see what i can post for you guys to look at.

-Alex

[aberek]

This sure is bittersweet news for me. I had finally decided to leave Maya because of the high initial costs and more so their local licensing policy (a Maya licence is invalid outside of the country that it's bought in and I move around a bit). After testing just about every other alternative I was very happy discovering XSI. Aside from having to wear X-ray glasses to read the murky interface and running boot-camp, XSI really impresses me and I was looking forward to buying Foundation in a couple of weeks and upgrading to Essentials as soon as I could afford. With this news I'm back to square one, Maya PLE. On second thought, it's square zero, as everything you do in Maya PLE stays in Maya PLE. Like, forever.

Maya and now XSI is apparently not for personal use. That's ok, if it's a Ferrari then it's a Ferrari. I was just so happy about Foundation as it would have allowed me to step up in my own pace, maybe even making a few bucks to pay for investing in Essentials/Advanced. Anyhoo, XSI 7 seems great! I'm still searching for the button "Make the interface readable" but maybe it's in there somewhere and everything else seems like a really cool upgrade. I'm looking forward to trying it in 2012.

Cheers

Jack,
I know that it is harder to budget for the new prices but believe me it is well worth it. yes XSI is a Ferrari and a great ride at that. Maya is a good program as well but there are just so many things that are actually easier to do in XSI. For your magic button, check out the pixelcorps tutorial set. I created the first one in there and it will give you a quick overview of the interface and where everything that you need to get started resides.
http://community.softimage.com/forumdisplay.php?f=85
I think you will find the magic button in there. ;)

enjoy and i know it sounds crazy but try to save up here and there to get XSI it is really worth it. coming from a max and maya background, this version is really the one that helps use particle effects guys get away from maya and max. i know i have been waiting for this since version 4 when i first told Mike Isner that we needed a GREAT particle system in XSI and now our prayers and so many more have been answered. HATS OFF to the dev team guys, they really did a great job on this release!!!

-Alex

[farhaad_yousefi]

Farhaad,
Don't fret just yet. While CAT is not in XSI...yet. Phillip (CAT creator/most awesome programmer) has been hard at work coding ICE. So....with that in mind i can see a whole new world opening up for us animators and hopefully CAT will make it's appearance soon. I already asked the question from the dev guys and they had no response on when we would see something but i will keep my fingers crossed for next release. Till then enjoy ICE it has been a wild beta ride but well worth it. ICE is a thing of beauty to see in action and pretty much whatever you can think of, you can do in ICE. Even with a limited knowledge of the nodes you can create some really wicked effects! I'll see what i can post for you guys to look at.

-Alex

.i know ice make me proud in font of my maya friends ..but here in my country we mostly rely on character abilities of xsi so many companies are switching to xsi
and "C.A.T" is a laughing stock for max users to us xsi users. .. meanwhile the maya people have "motion.builder" witch has a grate rigs ..so bare with me when i've been anticipated for some extra new rig stuff and of course "cat". wouldn't you agree..?!

[aberek]

.i know ice make me proud in font of my maya friends ..but here in my country we mostly rely on character abilities of xsi so many companies are switching to xsi
and "C.A.T" is a laughing stock for max users to us xsi users. .. meanwhile the maya people have "motion.builder" witch has a grate rigs ..so bare with me when i've been anticipated for some extra new rig stuff and of course "cat". wouldn't you agree..?!

I agree completely. I would luv to have CAT in XSI. as for now i just use GATOR and collada to bring my CAT rigs and animations into XSI and then manipulate them there. Believe me, the dev guys are not stopping now that ICE is in place, they are going to use ICE as a platform to really make things better for the other areas of XSI such as rigging. I know it is hard but we will have to be a little patient. :) i know the wait is a killer hehe.

-Alex

[farhaad_yousefi]

I agree completely. I would luv to have CAT in XSI. as for now i just use GATOR and collada to bring my CAT rigs and animations into XSI and then manipulate them there. Believe me, the dev guys are not stopping now that ICE is in place, they are going to use ICE as a platform to really make things better for the other areas of XSI such as rigging. I know it is hard but we will have to be a little patient. :) i know the wait is a killer hehe.

-Alex
i completely agree !!

[kim aldis]

I meant they can earn more profits by charging a lower price to the group with a more elastic demand ....

You don't know that, you're not privy to Softimage's finances and you have no idea what it costs them to bring this product to market.

[Helli]

With this news I'm back to square one, Maya PLE. On second thought, it's square zero, as everything you do in Maya PLE stays in Maya PLE. Like, forever.
Cheers

XSI Educational License ???
195$/year


So now, come on everyone stop whining. This update price is incredible ! And after you have Ess once you can always upgrade it for as less as ~800$ I think.

This is a serious piece of software. You want to play with it as hobbyst but can't afford it ? Use Blender. You are student and can't afford an Essential License ? Buy an educational license.

About the discussion in the last 3 posts. ICE allready makes Animators life easier. Multithreaded envelope as example. Every single Animator on XSIbase was whining all the years because there is no realtime feedback avaible with a bit more complex character. Those days are gone ! It's possible now.
Multithreaded ShrinkWrap for Muscle Systems is another ICE operator I've allready seen.
Be patient, there will be tons of stuff in the future. And the best is, you don't have to wait for a new software release, those ICE nodes can be written by everyone and then can be shared.

[andystopps]

The educational license is only available if you are a member of an "accredited educational establishment" and can jump through a lot of hoops providing documentation.
I have to say I'm pretty pissed off because I was about to buy Foundation but waited because of the prospect of 7 coming out.
Oh well, there's always Houdini Apprentice.

[ThE_JacO]

...snip...



Easy tiger :)
I share some of your thinking, but it can probably be posted differently.
This is a "happy thoughts" kinda thread after all.

[Helli]

Sorry Jaco ;)
Yea your right, this should be a thread everybody is jumping around beeing happy :D

@andystops
Yep and there is blender and modtool

[Gene]

Congratulations, Softimage, to this amazingly elegant piece of software! May XSI7 be as successful as it deserves!

Looking at this demo video with the rock carving into the snow, I wonder if it would be possible to implement a decent sculpting toolset with ICE.
I messed with ZBrush and find the interface rather odd. ICE seems to be fast, so maybe if the polycount is not beyond any reckoning, you could do the job in XSI...

Very inspiring all this is...
Best,
Gene

[moose o death]

wow i was wanting to upgrade to essentials one day, poly reduction tools mainly. but alot of the other features are useless for me as i'm doing mainly low polygon game modelling. the thing that impresses the hell out of me is ultimapper. and the promise of xsi7 making full use of multithreading would bring those ambocc's down into more suitable timeframes i'm sure.

the prices mentioned do sound reasonable, i'm waiting on my email to describe in better detail. i'm gonna have to cash in some holiday pay or something, or even maybe start selling game models, i think they may be good enough but i lack the time needed.

i better start looking into finances. and i never got any dvd's for v6-fnd

[Levi]

Is there a video tutorial anywhere yet that actually SHOWS these new features in action rather than just text? Sometimes video helps make a better sale ;)
Yes, the ICE videos are on the main Softimage site, craftily hidden away on the main ICE page of the XSI 7 section... The last place you'd look (and the first) ;O)




Seriously, this appears to be an epic, epic release. Does anyone know if the new shaders for the volume effects (smoke, fire etc) are related to Holger's/Binary Academy's BA_Volume shaders?

[Levi]

What about the kids who are just learning 3D software in general *cough me* I was planning on getting foundation once I was actually good enough to make some cash off my work. $3,000 is a big chuck of change for a gonna be student.

Surely if you are learning, then the free 'mod-tool' version of XSI is a good place to begin.

[ThE_JacO]

wow i was wanting to upgrade to essentials one day, poly reduction tools mainly. but alot of the other features are useless for me as i'm doing mainly low polygon game modelling. the thing that impresses the hell out of me is ultimapper. and the promise of xsi7 making full use of multithreading would bring those ambocc's down into more suitable timeframes i'm sure.
There is more to v7 than ICE that might interest you, just maybe not as advertised as ICE.
There are RTS improvements and MRay improvements that you could find interesting, and what hasn't surfaced about ICE yet (since this is unreleased yet) is how it can be used creatively and out of the box.

Pointclouds are used for a helluva lot more than just particles, and while geometry creation isn't supported within ICE, being able to generate and manipulate point clouds so thoroughly does give a huge headstart to any dev work, as it only leaves connectivity generation and committingto an eventual custom plugin to create some.

[moose o death]

the new speeds i saw on the ultimapper video seem like good enough reasons to upgrade, and i never knew about that preview thing. nor the ability to integrate the game engine directly into xsi. pity leadwerks is a licensed engine or i'd start begging josh to do that and not worry about making his own editors

[Helli]

Does anyone know if the new shaders for the volume effects (smoke, fire etc) are related to Holger's/Binary Academy's BA_Volume shaders?

Those are the BA_volume shaders as far as I know (someone told me at fmx). And they are looking good.

[ThE_JacO]

Those are the BA_volume shaders as far as I know (someone told me at fmx). And they are looking good.

Confirmed, new and VERY improved BA nodes.

[Jack Winge]

XSI Educational License ???
195$/year

So now, come on everyone stop whining. This update price is incredible ! And after you have Ess once you can always upgrade it for as less as ~800$ I think.

This is a serious piece of software. You want to play with it as hobbyst but can't afford it ? Use Blender. You are student and can't afford an Essential License ? Buy an educational license.

Chill dude... :) Firstly I'm not a student and thus can not buy the educational license. Secondly I have no plans to play around with XSI as a hobbyist, quite the contrary. But we all have to start somewhere, right?
Now, if you were in a position to buy a piece of software after months of testing and evaluating various solutions, and suddenly had to wait about 6 months of saving because the starting price just got a serious bump from $500 to $3000, I'd think you would be pretty dissapointed as well.
I'm not complaining about the pricing of XSI software. On the contrary I think it's cheap compared to the competition. Also I'm not complaining about XSI's choice to phase out Foundation, that's for them to decide (of course). I just think it's sad that it went that way. This does not change my decision to go with XSI, it just delays it.

I think it's pretty obvious that a lot of people will be rather dissapointed at the demise of Foundation. And why shouldn't they? It was most likely the best way around to get started with some serious software without having deep pockets. Softimage themselves respectfully write that "...this was not an easy decision to make". Of course such a great deal will be missed by many.

[Helli]

Ask others on xsibase maybe they sell you a copy of XSI Foundation. Then update it. Not sure if this is allowed. But at least its worth asking your reseller.

[3dtutorial]

Ask others on xsibase maybe they sell you a copy of XSI Foundation. Then update it. Not sure if this is allowed. But at least its worth asking your reseller.

AFAIK Foundation can't be sold on.

J

[Jack Winge]

Ask others on xsibase maybe they sell you a copy of XSI Foundation. Then update it. Not sure if this is allowed. But at least its worth asking your reseller.

Thanks for the tip, I'll check if it's allowed.

I just realized that if there is a XSI 7 trial coming out then since I'm currently using the XSI 6 trial that could keep me floating for two months :D

[Jack Winge]

Jack,
I know that it is harder to budget for the new prices but believe me it is well worth it. yes XSI is a Ferrari and a great ride at that. Maya is a good program as well but there are just so many things that are actually easier to do in XSI. For your magic button, check out the pixelcorps tutorial set. I created the first one in there and it will give you a quick overview of the interface and where everything that you need to get started resides.
http://community.softimage.com/forumdisplay.php?f=85
I think you will find the magic button in there. ;)

enjoy and i know it sounds crazy but try to save up here and there to get XSI it is really worth it. coming from a max and maya background, this version is really the one that helps use particle effects guys get away from maya and max. i know i have been waiting for this since version 4 when i first told Mike Isner that we needed a GREAT particle system in XSI and now our prayers and so many more have been answered. HATS OFF to the dev team guys, they really did a great job on this release!!!

-Alex

Thanks Alex, I fully agree. I will wait and save to get Essentials. I've been working with 3D for quite some time but mostly using Rhino and others at my design dayjob. For the past year I've been getting more serious with other areas of 3D such as animation and tested a lot of software to decide which way to go. I've spent a lot of time with Maya but it's really counterintuitive to use in so many ways, and the pricing for the bells and whistles would kill, no, annihilate my budget. The short time that I've spent with the XSI trial shows me a much more intuitive software with a pricing that is reachable. I even feels more solid than Maya. The downside for me is that I will have to leave OS X and work in Windows, but that's alright, I do that every day anyway and some day Microsoft might even come out with something that can actually be used.

Anyhoo, I can't wait for the XSI 7 trial! I'm reading up on the ICE system and that looks like something to get lost in forever (erh, in a positive way that is). They seem to have put a lot of effort into making it intuitive too, kudos for that.

Thanks for the tip on Pixel Corps, I will check those out.

[Helli]

AFAIK Foundation can't be sold on.
J

The Foundation user can upgrade to Ess and then make an ownerchange on that ess. License.
Thats what I've heard from a reseller.

[3dtutorial]

The Foundation user can upgrade to Ess and then make an ownerchange on that ess. License.
Thats what I've heard from a reseller.


ok, so like I said.... a foundation license can't be sold on. :-)

[Helli]

true ;)

[Daniel Brassard]

ICE ..... Cool, can't wait to put that bad boy (or girl) to work.

Is ICE available for both version of XSI (Essential and Advanced) or only on the Advance version?

.....Hummm food for though.

..................................................

The possibilities are exploding my brain .... Arrrhhhh! (Kaboom ... splat)

[Helli]

ICE ..... Cool, can't wait to put that bad boy (or girl) to work.
Is ICE available for both version of XSI (Essential and Advanced) or only on the Advance version?


ICE is the same in both versions.

[Jack Winge]

The Foundation user can upgrade to Ess and then make an ownerchange on that ess. License.
Thats what I've heard from a reseller.

I think that might be a too complicated or risky process to ask of a private seller, at least here in Thailand whith all the present corruption. But thanks anyway.

I think I'm cool with waiting to afford Essentials now. The initial OH MY GOD!!! has settled.

[teamcarlisle]

Can't wait, but one thing (aside from ICE) that I was really hoping they would talk about is compatiblility with Vista, I made the move to Vistax64 a while ago, and eventually got xsi 6.5 to work friendly with it. Does anyone know if softimage has mentioned anything about improved compatibility? I can't seem to find anything on the subject.

[mi_echo_log.txt]

Can't wait, but one thing (aside from ICE) that I was really hoping they would talk about is compatiblility with Vista, I made the move to Vistax64 a while ago, and eventually got xsi 6.5 to work friendly with it. Does anyone know if softimage has mentioned anything about improved compatibility? I can't seem to find anything on the subject.

Vista64 will be a supported platform for V7

[KPaetow]

Hey teamcarlisle,

Having watched the two ICE tutorial videos (the deformation one at 20min and the particle one at about 10 min or so), I recall seeing a number of Vista Aero-style dialogs appear and disappear. While that hardly is an indicator of how solid the support is, it is an indicator that it does work on Vista. And given the fact this is a new release, and Vista's been around for over a year now, it should all be good.

[teamcarlisle]

Cool, thanks for the replies :) I was pretty sure vista would be supported. I wasn't worried, just suprised that SoftImage didn't mention it. Now if only I can save up the money to upgrade my 6.5 essentials :D

[moose o death]

anyone know if those particle effects can be baked into game ready style textures? a fire texture with perfect alpha channel could be a handy time saver.

[scaron]

cross forum post... hate me for it... http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=5253710#post5253710

lets talk about what else is cool about ICE we get a new API for exporting custom particle formats. during early beta i was able to script up a simple exporter to krakatoa using their csv format. many thanks to the frantic guys for helping me out with their excellent format documentation and forum support...

http://www.steven-caron.com/images/ICE2Krakatoa_sm.jpg (http://www.steven-caron.com/images/ICE2Krakatoa.jpg)

at that time nothing but particle positions were supported, i wanted to write their binary .prt format so i could more particles, with more channels, with compression etc. anyways ice 2 krakatoa torus on fire...

http://www.steven-caron.com/downloads/ice2krakatoa_fire.avi

about 1.5 million particles at its highest count, 2 partitions used meaning i exported two caches with offset seed values.

and an elephant full o particulars...

http://www.steven-caron.com/images/ICE2Krakatoa_elephant.jpg

[ThE_JacO]

anyone know if those particle effects can be baked into game ready style textures? a fire texture with perfect alpha channel could be a handy time saver.

You normally just render that stuff orthogonally.
What ICE can do for that though is that it allows a level of control that ensures you can make that kind of stuff realistic but still loop.

[loren_soth]

I have a little question, what can't Ice do that others softwares offer?

sorry my bad english

[seppuku05]

I don't know if it has been asked, I gave up reading at page 4 (given the hour I'm posting)

I see Softimage|XSI Foundation has been dropped from the updates, now I have a certain amount of money in the bank and I'm going to use it to build up myself some tools for my projects, now as that money will be looking after the rent until my student loan comes through (which I'll take the money back from) so I won't have money until late September/October, not that it matters. But I've been hanging around the affordable tools, and thought I might give XSI a chance, however I've looked over the website and the UK resellers and I haven't found a single copy of XSI Foundation availible for purchase.

So will there be avaibility for new customers (who aren't fussy about the 'latest', where the current features are enough) for XSI foundation or another affordable commercial version?

I consider myself a potential customer now that I have the money - or will I have to wait longer to get more money or find an alternative solution? (If so, any suggestions? (Lightwave is a little bit out for my price tag, though I can afford it, but it would mean sacrificing other programs I need) Noting I need it for game creation)

[CiaranM]

Besides beer, I couldn't think of a better thing to blow my student loan on than the student version of XSI. Bargain!

[seppuku05]

Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the student version non-commercial? Although I'm just a hobbyist game maker, I wouldn't mind putting what I come up with for sale on my website or on one of those independant game websites. (My course is in no way related) Though I suppose if need be, I could get the student and upgrade later when I need to and have the money. But still, it's a little disappointing seeing Foundation go when you're considering it as a good option.

Though booze...well that brought me into my overdraft the year just gone, summer balls eh?

[bsm3d]

News of the 64-bit? XP64 compatible? For the screenshots I have seen that 32-bit version ...

[KPaetow]

I have to agree that it is sad that Foundation has been pulled.

If the plan was for it to get me, as a potential customer, hooked on XSI, well, it worked. I've been on board since 4.0.

The allure of Foundation is the feel you get for what its bigger brothers can do. You can feel the power, the fit & finish. A baby Bimmer, of sorts. One gets the time to learn at one's own pace since there's no worrying that the license will expire in four weeks. No watermarks. Sharing of files with the bigger siblings. Oh, and you can even make a buck or two if you happen to get a couple of gigs in the process, since the license permits that.

I'm sure it would continue to work as a magnet for potential customers of XSI, or to newcomers to 3D in general, given the great value that it was. I used to use another package (won't name names, but it's not one of the big boys) that, for a while costed $795. Since downgraded to $595 likely because Foundation was far superior for less. Foundation was WAAAY more powerful, stable, predictable, controllable, extensible, smooth and just plain more elegant compared with the other one. For $495. Basically, a no-brainer. So I switched. Actually, I'm surprised the other package survives to this day.

I've since upgraded to Essentials 6.5, when SI added most of the Advanced features at the intro price of $1,995. That, too, was bargain-basement for the power, relatively speaking. I'm glad I took maintenance at that time as well, so I'm blessed to say that I will get to partake in the 7.0 goodness. Admittedly, Essentials is a steep price to pay for someone who is only just getting into 3D in a serious way, and not even to earn a buck. Just for the fun of it. So I guess that makes me crazy.

But, there it is. I tried, I loved, I bought. Foundation executed flawlessly on its intended purpose.

I really do think Foundation should still be made available as a product, even if ICE is stripped out and the only marketable feature is, say, MR 3.6. (Assuming it's possible to do that, architecturally speaking, with 7.0.) Foundation filled a gap between those who are studying (and thus qualify for the Educational licensing) and those that are doing it for a living -- or are willing, able or just plain crazy enough (like me!) to pony up. Heck, even Foundation 6.0 could still be kept on the market as-is, because it's that good.

I can only imagine that as part of their 'back to basics' philosophy, SI's focussing on their original market, the pros and the studios. I don't know what effect having Foundation available on the market had on their bottom line (might have been a loss leader), nor do I know what potential the market segment I described has. And I know that SI now has to recoup their investment in the 7.0 core rewrite, which I'm sure is substantial. But I also know that some software companies have built their customer base, and customer loyalties, through providing "light" editions. I know I felt the love from SI with my Foundation experiences. I think in the long run, discontinuing Foundation may have a negative, but difficult-to-quantify effect on SI's business. One only has to take a look at some of the other posts in this thread to get a feel for that.

My 2 cents.

KP

[bsm3d]

I guess SI have longtime analysed the market effects (Positive and Negative) of stop Foundation...

I know many of my students after showed XSI, who starting soon in CG business, after graduate who likely want buy a Foundation licence because the reputation of XSI and Mentalray for 450 euro ! So it's a sad news...

Not for me, but I understand the SI choice and I understand also peoples who have bad feeling with this announcing, the bad side of today editors company is always say the bad news with a good one and always try to keep so secrets customers change

SI is not the first and only one to do that's, but I don't like this.

[seppuku05]

Nicely put, Foundation was really my main attraction to this application, however there were a couple of other programs that have kept my interest as well (won't name names), but it was the superior pricing of Foundation that put this on top. But I'm sure Softimage have their eyes on their future and I can understand why they might need to dedicate more time to their main market (especially as they have to pay the bigger price tags), it will mean me pushing towards the student market (the student pricing market seems quite competitive) and upgrading when I can afford, however one of the programs I was also interested in, that's more expensive than XSI Foundation, but the student price is cheaper and it'd work out less in the long run. (The main advantage is that I learned to 3D model on an archiac version of the app)

So it means my stay here is short lived, but SI7 looks kickass (just to move away from the depressing Foundation talk) and from watching XSI from version 5 (and playing with the mod tools and demos) it seems to have had quite a nice development streak.

[Pete]

This is AwESOMe NEWS!!!
I was about to explode, going nuts scraping the net for any 'moondust' info.
So glad to be on the XSI side now, the releases are really inspirational!!!
I Can't wait to have a mess with this.

[ThE_JacO]

BTW guys, this is the XSI 7 thread, not the Foundation discontinued thread :)
If you have concerns about that and have little related to the new version to post please use http://community.softimage.com/showthread.php?p=7056

[Jack Winge]

BTW guys, this is the XSI 7 thread, not the Foundation discontinued thread :)
If you have concerns about that and have little related to the new version to post please use http://community.softimage.com/showthread.php?p=7056


I don't see the error in discussing the discontinuing of Foundation in a thread that actually starts with bringing it up (see quote below). Furthermore it really does relate to XSI 7 as many of us were planning to buy XSI 7 Foundation. But if you wish to switch direction of this thread, then sure.


XSI Foundation Discontinued as a Standalone Product

Another announcement -- Softimage is discontinuing XSI Foundation as a standalone product.
Here is a notice to XSI Foundation users (http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/foundation/)

Until 30 September 2008, all XSI Foundation customers (including version 4.x, 5.x and 6.x customers) are eligible to upgrade to XSI 7 at the lowest prices ever offered. Please contact your Softimage reseller (http://www.softimage.com/buy/) or Softimage Sales for pricing and details..

[moose o death]

BTW guys, this is the XSI 7 thread, not the Foundation discontinued thread :)
If you have concerns about that and have little related to the new version to post please use http://community.softimage.com/showthread.php?p=7056
i have to respect a forum that actually attempts to keep topics on rails. most forums i visit nowadays have long since stopped caring where a conversation ends up.

but like i said, just need to sort out the cash side of things, i've been reading up on xsi7 and everything seems like a good step up from what we had. ice should make particle developement for games easier

speed improvements for multicores should bring rendertimes on ultimapper down

the "forced" upgrade to essentials to get the new features means i finally have access to poly reduction tools.

so while i'm not thrilled at foundation's demise from a bringing new people to the fold point of view, i'm already here, and wanting to capitalise on this offer.

i don't know why, but i feel like i'm barracking the underdog whenever i praise xsi in the games communities. someone else, whom i wont name but we all know who, seems to have more followers despite being more expensive.

[ThE_JacO]

It's not a big deal, but this is a news thread and it also tries to be informative in regards to the new features and how they apply to production.

Discussion about licensing and complaints tend to soon go off on tangents that aren't version specific anymore, and the higher visibility and participation in this thread also makes it just that little bit more prone to be flamed for it.

Also this thread will at some point die when the news get old and a release is out, whereas the FND discussion might be relevant (to the search engine too) for a different span of time.

I'm not going to heavily moderate a post just because it asks something about foundation, but in the interest of readability and search efficiency it would be beneficial for everybody to keep information as contextualized as possible, and the FND EOL thread is there for that :)

[Jack Winge]

Fair enough, so to steer matters in another direction: Are there any new functions equivalent to Maya muscle in XSI 7? I haven't found any info on this and in the little time that I've spent with the XSI 6 trial I haven't found anything similar. Pardon me if I'm missing something obvious.

[ThE_JacO]

No you're not missing anything obvious.
There is no pre-packaged muscle system, ICE's most notable trait is its backend and its performance, but it doesn't come with a slew of oddball deformers.

Said that, it's THE perfect environment to create a skin solver, and I put one together myself very quickly that outperformed anything I had used before.

Maybe not as neatly packaged as a plugin with all the buttons to create muscles and all, but the system is there to support one. Somebody will do the work I'm sure, I'll probably put some of this stuff online for public consumption myself between jobs, just can't this month :)

[Simon_h]

how easy is it to work with ice compounds in when scripting (ie. if I want to apply a compound that works with multiple objects would I be able to use syntax like: applyCompund( ojecta, objectb) ).

nice to see that there are now better tools for scripting, text hilighting ect http://community.softimage.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

simon

[ThE_JacO]

it's pretty easy, but it might be redundant.
In first place ICE compounds are xml files, which means you can pretty much generate a complex one instantly by writing the text file for it if you know exactly what you want to do, and not less important, the actual nodes and how they work are very, very adaptable.
IE: you can select a bunch of objects and drag them from the explorer to the graph and you will get all the get data nodes.
Drag a vector mul by scalar on top of a compatible connection and it will fit in the middle and connect inbetween.
Drag something on an input port and it will be created connected.

The choice of nodes also facilitates graphs being reusable and modular, so very often you actually tend to make your graph responsive rather than rebuild it procedurally based on context.

[Jack Winge]

No you're not missing anything obvious.
There is no pre-packaged muscle system, ICE's most notable trait is its backend and its performance, but it doesn't come with a slew of oddball deformers.

Said that, it's THE perfect environment to create a skin solver, and I put one together myself very quickly that outperformed anything I had used before.

Maybe not as neatly packaged as a plugin with all the buttons to create muscles and all, but the system is there to support one. Somebody will do the work I'm sure, I'll probably put some of this stuff online for public consumption myself between jobs, just can't this month :)

Thanks, that sounds great! Im really looking forward to trying out ICE, hope the XSI 7 trial will be available soon.

[Simon_h]

it's pretty easy, but it might be redundant.
In first place ICE compounds are xml files, which means you can pretty much generate a complex one instantly by writing the text file for it if you know exactly what you want to do, and not less important, the actual nodes and how they work are very, very adaptable.
IE: you can select a bunch of objects and drag them from the explorer to the graph and you will get all the get data nodes.
Drag a vector mul by scalar on top of a compatible connection and it will fit in the middle and connect inbetween.
Drag something on an input port and it will be created connected.

The choice of nodes also facilitates graphs being reusable and modular, so very often you actually tend to make your graph responsive rather than rebuild it procedurally based on context.

Thanks for the reply but that is not really what I was asking. I was wondering how easy it is for you to do reppetitive tasks with comounds you have already made. how easly would I be able to apply the same graph to say 500 different ojects in a rigging script. will I be able to script the apllication of compound to objects in the scene as easaly as with a standard custom operator.

So I never have to bother with programming SCOPS and custom ops again but can use ice ops in my rigging scripts insteadhttp://community.softimage.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

simon

[ThE_JacO]

It's trivially easy.

[Simon_h]

It's trivially easy.

thought so, just wanted to make sure.

can't wait to get my hands on this.

simon

[Oz Adi]

Damn, we just got a new 8Xcore, and I let our Maya guy have it, because
he was doing the heavy FX stuff... I'll have to replace his 8xCore with my 4xCore in a stealthy way when he is away, or better yet convert him to XSI which he always makes fun of... hehe :)

This is an AMAZING release!!! Just like most of you I can't wait to get my hands on it.
I was wondering if there's a full new-features/enhancements/Bug-fixes list. I couldnt find one...

There are some highlights regarding new improvments on the site, but I guess there are many important enhancments/improvments to other areas of XSI that we would like to know of :)

[NeilV]

I just got my promotional XSI email. Upgrade price for foundation users is $999 and lasts till September 30th. That'll give me plenty of time to save up, but it will probably be my last XSI purchase for a few years.

I always like to stay up to date with my software, but spending $2,000's on ANY program, wether you make money off of it or not, is a BIG purchase..no matter how much value you get out of it ..

[macarbon]

OZ...oh yeah, definetly get your machine back!!!

Maya's Nucleus is not even multi-threaded!!!!

[scaron]

be nice guys...

[KPaetow]

You're right, scaron. Getting a little carried away. Must've gotten a brain freeze from all that ICE. :wink:

[farhaad_yousefi]

Damn, we just got a new 8Xcore, and I let our Maya guy have it, because
he was doing the heavy FX stuff... I'll have to replace his 8xCore with my 4xCore in a stealthy way when he is away, or better yet convert him to XSI which he always makes fun of... hehe :)



i am proud to announce i've turned at least 15 maya jedies to the dark saide of xsi by now :yes:

[Jack Winge]

More questions... my apologies if I'm asking too many :)

- As far as I can read the only difference between XSI 7 Essentials and XSI 7 Advanced is five batch rendering licenses and behavior crowd simulation? Let's say that I want to set up two, three computers to do network rendering of frames in MR, do I then need to have Advanced, or are there separate render licenses available for purchase?

- Will XSI 7 have the same EULA (in short) as XSI 6, where unless I'm mistaken, I'm allowed to use my license wherever I currently reside, be it Thailand, USA, Japan, Sweden, Pluto? (Autodesk licenses are limited to the country of purchase).

- In XSI 7, are there any new features in the rendering API that could perhaps speed up the finishing of V-Ray for XSI? It seems to have taken a long time, and considering long overdue V-Ray for Maya I'm wondering if it will go down the same road.

- Are there any improvements on measuring and aligning objects in XSI 7? As I work in Rhino at my dayjob, I really miss Rhino's powerful and exact tools of measuring and positioning objects. I do a lot of CNC milling, and it would be nice to be able to use XSI for some of that too, without having to go through Rhino for final output (not actual milling, only preparing the model).

- Are there any updates on the nurbs tools in XSI 7?

- Are we there yet?

[giant551]

I am very interested with Mental ray 3.6 especially the Irradiance Particles. Can anyone shed some light (no pun intended) on this as it looks like a real win for Arch viz. The ability to have an easier set up for GI would be great as i find its a real battle sometimes depending on the scene with the current version of mental ray.

Sometimes i spend more time tweeking the render settings and getting a usable lighting solution than i do actually puttng the scene together. Having used Vray for a project with max lately i realised how hard MR can make you work for a good image. But i suppose thats why you pay £500 extra for Vray:).

I am starting to get a real warm fuzzy feeling about V7:clap:

Thanks,

Paul

[scaron]

- In XSI 7, are there any new features in the rendering API that could perhaps speed up the finishing of V-Ray for XSI? It seems to have taken a long time, and considering long overdue V-Ray for Maya I'm wondering if it will go down the same road.

no new 'feature' that is going to speed the implementation, it just takes time to support everything, bug test, and make sure the workflow is good. just hold your horses...

[ThE_JacO]

More questions... my apologies if I'm asking too many :)

- As far as I can read the only difference between XSI 7 Essentials and XSI 7 Advanced is five batch rendering licenses and behavior crowd simulation? Let's say that I want to set up two, three computers to do network rendering of frames in MR, do I then need to have Advanced, or are there separate render licenses available for purchase?

- Will XSI 7 have the same EULA (in short) as XSI 6, where unless I'm mistaken, I'm allowed to use my license wherever I currently reside, be it Thailand, USA, Japan, Sweden, Pluto? (Autodesk licenses are limited to the country of purchase).
These are all questions you should address to sales@softimage.com
The quick answer is that there are xsibatch licenses you can buy
The EULA is worldwide afaik
But the official answer can only come from a softimage.com address, and this isn't the kind of thing that sales staff usually comes on forums to discuss.

- In XSI 7, are there any new features in the rendering API that could perhaps speed up the finishing of V-Ray for XSI? It seems to have taken a long time, and considering long overdue V-Ray for Maya I'm wondering if it will go down the same road.
The rendering API is good, if V-Ray is taking a while it's because they are being sensible and releasing when ready, or they are dealing with feature creep.
3Delight, even with older and first incarnations of the rendering API only took a handful of months to release, but they weren't working on four platforms at once and they also a more agile approach to feature/release milestones.
It's not down to Soft anymore at this point.

- Are there any improvements on measuring and aligning objects in XSI 7? As I work in Rhino at my dayjob, I really miss Rhino's powerful and exact tools of measuring and positioning objects. I do a lot of CNC milling, and it would be nice to be able to use XSI for some of that too, without having to go through Rhino for final output (not actual milling, only preparing the model).

- Are there any updates on the nurbs tools in XSI 7?

- Are we there yet?
No, No, No. But you get two chocolate chip cookies.

[scaron]

I am very interested with Mental ray 3.6 especially the Irradiance Particles. Can anyone shed some light (no pun intended) on this as it looks like a real win for Arch viz. The ability to have an easier set up for GI would be great as i find its a real battle sometimes depending on the scene with the current version of mental ray.

Sometimes i spend more time tweeking the render settings and getting a usable lighting solution than i do actually puttng the scene together. Having used Vray for a project with max lately i realised how hard MR can make you work for a good image. But i suppose thats why you pay £500 extra for Vray:).

i dont think the inclusing of irradiance particles and importons are going to make setup any easier...

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=87&t=621727

i posted this over at cgtalk, these are just two of the possible set of options available to you for ip and importons. the photon global tab gets more options when you enable caustics.

s

[Jack Winge]

no new 'feature' that is going to speed the implementation, it just takes time to support everything, bug test, and make sure the workflow is good. just hold your horses...

Thanks, I'll hold 'em horses :) I have actually been waiting for quite some time for V-Ray as I haven't had a supported app yet (except Rhino, but I want to use V-Ray for animation).

[Jack Winge]

These are all questions you should address to sales@softimage.com
The quick answer is that there are xsibatch licenses you can buy
The EULA is worldwide afaik
But the official answer can only come from a softimage.com address, and this isn't the kind of thing that sales staff usually comes on forums to discuss.

The rendering API is good, if V-Ray is taking a while it's because they are being sensible and releasing when ready, or they are dealing with feature creep.
3Delight, even with older and first incarnations of the rendering API only took a handful of months to release, but they weren't working on four platforms at once and they also a more agile approach to feature/release milestones.
It's not down to Soft anymore at this point.

No, No, No. But you get two chocolate chip cookies.

Thanks, I agree, I'd rather wait longer for something solid than unknowingly join a beta team. Unless maybe (but only maybe) I got lots of cookies to go.

Thanks a lot for all the in depth info, it's been very helpful :)

[coolroy]

scaron
Can you shed some light what is inside of Ambient Occlusion tab?

[StephenBlair]

More questions... my apologies if I'm asking too many :)

- As far as I can read the only difference between XSI 7 Essentials and XSI 7 Advanced is five batch rendering licenses and behavior crowd simulation? Let's say that I want to set up two, three computers to do network rendering of frames in MR, do I then need to have Advanced, or are there separate render licenses available for purchase?


You can purchase separate Batch licenses, but if all you need is two or three Batch, I think you will find that Advanced is the better deal. Essentials plus a couple of Batch is going to cost you more than Advanced. Check with Softimage Sales or your reseller for the pricing.

The other difference between Essentials and Advanced that I forgot to mention before is the number of processing tokens (http://softimage.wiki.avid.com/index.php/INFO:_Understanding_XSI_Licensing#XSI_Advanced_Lic enses). Advanced has eight, Essentials has four.

[Jack Winge]

Thanks for clarifying, Stephen.

[Ohmanoggin]

Q: "In XSI 7, are there any new features in the rendering API that could perhaps speed up the finishing of V-Ray for XSI? "

This is just my own speculation, but I would imagine the developers of V-Ray may have been holding off getting it fully implemented until 7 was released.

Ohmanoggin

[macarbon]

be nice guys...

Hey Steve Are you refering to my comment about Nucleus not being multi-threaded?
It's only a fact...I'm not insulting anyone am I?
Anyway...Siggraph is just around the corner, they usually don't sit much on their laurels either.

Ciao

[ThE_JacO]

Hey Steve Are you refering to my comment about Nucleus not being multi-threaded?
It's only a fact...I'm not insulting anyone am I?
Anyway...Siggraph is just around the corner, they usually don't sit much on their laurels either.

Ciao

No, we deleted a post that was a bit too flamable, Steve's was after that.

[IulianUM]

I want to say thank you to all the testers who help us with all our questions .:rockon:
And of course Softimage .:clap:

But seriously ThE_JacO and scaron tell us what ICE node stretch the day , man you are on all forums , working ..... how many hours have your days ?

[ThE_JacO]

I want to say thank you to all the testers who help us with all our questions .:rockon:
And of course Softimage .:clap:

But seriously ThE_JacO and scaron tell us what ICE node stretch the day , man you are on all forums , working ..... how many hours have your days ?

It's actually pretty simple, ICE is ruining my life.
Before the kind of simulations I'm running right now would take hrs, so I could just shoot one off and go out for a coffee or work on something else on another box.
Now they take 2 to 4 minutes for 2s of footage, so I only have the time to fire mozilla up and check threads.

[Jack Winge]

I want to say thank you to all the testers who help us with all our questions .:rockon:

I second that.

[KPaetow]

Hey Steve Are you refering to my comment about Nucleus not being multi-threaded?
It's only a fact...I'm not insulting anyone am I?
Anyway...Siggraph is just around the corner, they usually don't sit much on their laurels either.

Ciao

It was to my post that scaron had replied, and which has since been deleted. I had made a quip about a competing vendor in jest, but I guess there was the possibility of it being interpreted literally.

Sorry about that folks... I'll be more careful. Chalk it up to noobiness on my part.

[scaron]

scaron
Can you shed some light what is inside of Ambient Occlusion tab?

AO Cache

its options for reuse of occlusion information. i dont know all the details but there is a new API for caching this information, the occlusion shader now uses this internally i think, you should see significant increase in rendering with occlusion

[scaron]

Q: "In XSI 7, are there any new features in the rendering API that could perhaps speed up the finishing of V-Ray for XSI? "

This is just my own speculation, but I would imagine the developers of V-Ray may have been holding off getting it fully implemented until 7 was released.

Ohmanoggin

i wouldn't say holding off, there is a lot to implement. jaco mentioned it already about supporting multiple platforms and other dcc apps. by developing for xsi they might be supporting both windows and linux with both 32bit and 64bit flavors. also they have their existing customers on the max side and have been working on a maya version for some time now.

[scaron]

I want to say thank you to all the testers who help us with all our questions .:rockon:

we are excited as you guys are, we have been working with softimage on its development for a long time now, its finally great to get it out there.

[moose o death]

the sales team STILL hasn't contacted me with my upgrade costing. it's not for want of trying. i've emailled them once.

they keep sendingh me other junk about xsi 7 just not the bit about buying it.

i've got a tax refund coming i think is big enough to fill the bill. just tell me what it is and it's yours XSi

[ThE_JacO]

the sales team STILL hasn't contacted me with my upgrade costing. it's not for want of trying. i've emailled them once.

they keep sendingh me other junk about xsi 7 just not the bit about buying it.

i've got a tax refund coming i think is big enough to fill the bill. just tell me what it is and it's yours XSi

They might be a bit on the busy side, and it's still an unreleased product :)
Give it a couple more days, and read some threads around, there is some fragmented info around you can puzzle together if you're on the anxious side.

[mi_echo_log.txt]

the sales team STILL hasn't contacted me with my upgrade costing. it's not for want of trying. i've emailled them once.

Send them another mail if you feel a reasonable amount of time has passed. Its also possible that a mail got caught in somebody's spam folder. So report back if you still have not had contact.

-matt

[Leonard]

Hi all,

We've started an ICE forum here:
http://community.softimage.com/forumdisplay.php?f=86

After launch, this will be the official help forum for ICE. In the meantime, we hope to give you as much information as we can about ICE and answer any questions that you may have.

I've posted all the demos that's on the main site so far, as well as Phil Taylor's spawning fireworks tutorial for the beta list. More videos will be posted soon.

Best regards,

Leo

[moose o death]

it had been a few days so i tried again just after posting that. i usually leave at least 24 hours before complaining about no responses, it is the WORLD wide web after all. we all seem to work different times of the day unfortunately

[Leonard]

Hi Scott,

I've emailed Bill Coleman to get in touch with you.

Best,

Leo

[moose o death]

i noticed that when i refreshed my email just now thanks...did initially get my hopes up though when i saw a slightly different email from with the word foundation in it

[Daniel Brassard]

I guess that each case is different depending of the version of foundation you have (4.x, 5.x or 6.x), if you took earlier upgrade offers (like me who moved from foundation 4.x to Essential 6.02) and if you have a maintenance contract in place. I did sent an e-mail to sales but have not received an answer as well yet.

Sales is probably overloaded at this time so I will be patient. It's a shame though that I already spent $$$ on the Essential package.

Make me a good offer Softimage, one that I cant refuse! :)

[Paul Doyle]

Hi Daniel - there is no differentiation between Foundation versions with regard to the promotion. It is a flat price regardless of version.

My apologies that someone from sales has not been in touch with you. Please email me at paul_doyle@softimage.com and I will make sure somebody responds to your query - we are pretty busy at the moment, but that's hardly grounds for complaint :)

See you soon

Paul Doyle
East Coast Sales Manager
Softimage

[septopus]

Hi Daniel - there is no differentiation between Foundation versions with regard to the promotion. It is a flat price regardless of version.

See you soon

Paul Doyle
East Coast Sales Manager
Softimage

wait, what? ....

SI need to make a pricing page thats clear for the release promotion going on...

this is all confusing

[halfdan]

wait, what? ....

SI need to make a pricing page thats clear for the release promotion going on...

this is all confusing

What he means is that it doesn't matter if you have version 4.0, 5.0, or 6.0 of Foundation. The upgrade price to 7.0 Essentials is the same for all three.

[scaron]

wait, what? ....

SI need to make a pricing page thats clear for the release promotion going on...

this is all confusing

whats confusing about this?

if you own any version foundation, since the day they introduced it, you can upgrade to essentials v7 for the same price.

[septopus]

not confusing to me..
but if it was as clear as you guys just said there wouldnt be questions/threads on pricing and the fate of foundation users...

[schuubars]

not confusing to me..
but if it was as clear as you guys just said there wouldnt be questions/threads on pricing and the fate of foundation users...


There will ever be someone who has questions, no matter how clear something is.
That's the nature of us. ;)

[Helli]

Hi there. What about all the modules in XSI wich are not driven by ICE, they will stay single threaded ? Like the curve editor, or the UV editor ? (both could really need the multithreaded boost).

[scaron]

i dont believe you can just multi thread everything and no the curve editor isn't faster because of ice developments, but the auto slope did get an update

s

[ThE_JacO]

Hi there. What about all the modules in XSI wich are not driven by ICE, they will stay single threaded ? Like the curve editor, or the UV editor ? (both could really need the multithreaded boost).

Multithreading isn't some magic bullet that speeds up everything.
There are plenty things that simply can't be multithreaded, or that makes no sense to.

The moment you talk editors the bottlenecks often are somewhere else.

ICE allows to manipulate UVs btw, so that part of things IS affected by ICE if you put an op on it.

[janimatic]

the auto slope did get an update

s

Hey Steven,

i am extremely interested in you comment, as some people here (at cube!) want to move away from xsi because of the automatic slope behavior (when draging keyframe along time sometimes it creates bumps on the curves when in automatic slope mode. Can you give more infos on this ? Many animators here have a max background but i can't compare since i don't know max well enough.

I know you are working with both and i'd love to here your opinion about the new xsi7 autoslope.

Thanks

[ThE_JacO]

i am extremely interested in you comment, as some people here (at cube!) want to move away from xsi because of the automatic slope behavior


It sounds like the funniest excuse for an excuse for not wanting to learn a different software I ever heard :)

[janimatic]

maybe but please just help me to keep them aboard.... thanks

[brent]

Hey Steven,

i am extremely interested in you comment, as some people here (at cube!) want to move away from xsi because of the automatic slope behavior (when draging keyframe along time sometimes it creates bumps on the curves when in automatic slope mode. Can you give more infos on this ? Many animators here have a max background but i can't compare since i don't know max well enough.

I know you are working with both and i'd love to here your opinion about the new xsi7 autoslope.

Thanks

Julien,

I can confirm that the slope and key editing behaviour in the fcurve editor has been tightened up in v7.

The auto slope now combines auto and plateau so the slope gradually plateaus as it reaches the local extrema. Also, when moving keys the tangents are scaled smoothly.

These were done to avoid the overshoots/undershoots and kinks you would get in previous versions of XSI when moving keys around.

There is also better support for broken tangents and numerous other small improvements so just hang in there... ;-)
--
Brent

[scaron]

ya, our animators dont really complain anymore about the fcurve editor, so ya hang in there...

[mantom]

Julien,

I can confirm that the slope and key editing behaviour in the fcurve editor has been tightened up in v7.

The auto slope now combines auto and plateau so the slope gradually plateaus as it reaches the local extrema. Also, when moving keys the tangents are scaled smoothly.

These were done to avoid the overshoots/undershoots and kinks you would get in previous versions of XSI when moving keys around.

There is also better support for broken tangents and numerous other small improvements so just hang in there... ;-)
--
Brent


Is the FCurve SDK improved too? That's the main issue we have here.

[janimatic]

The auto slope now combines auto and plateau so the slope gradually plateaus as it reaches the local extrema. Also, when moving keys the tangents are scaled smoothly.

This is exactly what we wanted! perfect...

thank you very much

[teamcarlisle]

I wasn't sure wether to ask this here or start a new thread, but does anyone know if XSI7 will be any more friendly with nvidia 8800's than it was before?

[Xero]

I have an 8800 GT and never had any problems with it and XSI.
What kind of problems do you have teamcarlisle?


All the new cool stuff in XSI 7 is making me jealous.:D
It's a shame I can't afford the upgrade from Foundation by September.
unless I win the lottery lol.